October 2009

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Martyn Andrews

In an exclusive interview for G&LH, Mike Foxwell talks to Martyn Andrews, the British expat presenter on Russia Today, the popular English-language Russian TV channel.
 

Elsewhere in this issue of G&LH, we present the final chapter of Colin de la Motte-Sherman’s three-part series “Other Europe”, which looks at some of the less-well-known aspects of central and Eastern Europe. In this final part, he takes a detailed look at what life is like for gay people in a number of former Eastern bloc countries. In common with these countries, Russia is also emerging from its communist past and growing its own distinctive new identity in the 21st Century.

Earlier this year, on the day that the Eurovision Song Contest final was staged in Moscow, a gay-pride march in the city was violently put down by the Russian law enforcement agencies. While these attacks received varied coverage by the international news media, this overt and highly visible crackdown on gay culture in what is Russia’s gayest city begs some serious questions about the likely future for gay people in what is the largest former communist country.

Russia Today
 

Mike Foxwell (MF): I understand you presented the Eurovision Song Contest this year for Russia Today. Was this the first time for you? How did you get the job? Will you be presenting it next year?

Martyn Andrews (MA): Yes, I covered the final event and the semi-finals for Russia Today TV. [It] was great fun!  RT broadcast in over 100 countries in English. Some people nickname it CNN-ski. They provide a different perspective on world news and Russian stories. It’s a refreshing change from some of the American and English channels we are used to.

I was given the job this year as I have presented a range of programming for them for the past four years – a studio-entertainment show, a cookery programme and an extreme-travel series that saw me travel over the 11 time zones of Russia!

[In Russia], the past Eurovision contests were just covered by the news teams – but as this year it was actually in Moscow, I suppose the channel wanted to make it a little bit special – covered by a non-news face that the audiences of the channel know.

Besides, my past lies in professional musical theatre, so I know all about performing. Yes, it was the first time for me hosting anything Eurovision related – a slightly nerve-wracking challenge – trying to remember the facts and figures of so many artists and countries! Live on TV with no autocue or notes! All was good in the end!

Will I present it again next year in Olso? Who knows? It depends what programming I am working on for RT or other channels. But one thing for sure, it was one huge event in the Russian capital this year … what a party! I hung out with Andrew Lloyd Webber and Graham Norton after … they were really nice. If anything, shy! I’ve worked with Andrew on Starlight Express and Whistle Down the Wind – he was quite surprised to see me! As for Graham, he was a little anxious it seemed as it was also his first year doing the BBC’s coverage. I thought it was odd as he was the famous one but I was the one in vision – at the end, for example, when the entire stadium was leaving, I was doing live interviews while foreign visitors were shouting “Graham, Graham” to me! Many foreign fans just saw a UK guy and presumed I was him. Funny … Graham was already drinking at the Ritz Carlton bar by then!

MF: How large is the Russian television audience for Eurovision?

MA: Eurovision is a big thing in Russia. In fact, possibly even more than it is in the UK. It was good that the BBC got involved with BBC winner [of Eurovision – Your Country Needs You!] Jade [Ewen] this year. It raised the status, and [the UK] coming fifth was great … wonderful (although I suspect some countries, including the UK, may even be scared of winning as it now costs so much to put on!).

Back to Russia’s involvement – Dima Bilan is arguably Russia’s biggest pop star – he came from Eurovision and won the contest in Belgrade [in 2008, after competing and coming second in Athens in 2006]. Many people in Russia [like] to see themselves as [part of] Europe, removing themselves from the attachment [to] the Soviet Union. It affects industry, import, export, life, culture, everything. Joining the contest in the 1990s was another step for them [towards] that goal.

Some little knowledge for you – Eurovision has nothing to do with the geography of Europe – that’s why Morocco, Israel etc. can enter. It’s about broadcasting perimeters! Gosh I did hours of research before being thrown live in front of millions of people!

MF: In Britain, Eurovision is seen mainly as fun but, elsewhere, it is taken more seriously. How do Russians perceive it?

MA: Well, I think generally they take it a little too seriously. But that’s not just Russia. I think most do. Some fans were hard core! Hehe … some of them I met from other countries were bordering on scary, they were so passionate! It was like they thought it was a UN battle. For some, it’s about songs, others it’s about whose country is better, what culture is stronger etc.

I knew Norway would win this year as 95 per cent of the fans had said it was their favourite song. I was told dozens of times – how I should have placed a bet! The song was catchy, kitsch and the boy with the fiddle [Alexander Rybak] was cute.

MF: Eurovision is extremely popular with gay people in Britain and other parts of Europe and is seen as a rather camp, fun show. Is this true in Russia also?

Glitter and feathers!

MA: Yes yes yes! And every other country that is involved. One of the best things about my job is all the parties you get invited to. All the countries and embassies of each country have pre-Eurovision parties for invited fans, delegates, performers etc. I went to the Israel party the Monday before the contest and I could have sworn I was in a gay bar. Hysterical. It’s camp, fun, all about glitter and feathers … so, sure, everyone should love it – gay or straight!

MF: How was the gay-pride march held on Eurovision day perceived by the general Russian population? Was there sympathy or hostility? Was it seen as a ploy to gain free publicity for the plight of gay people or, even, as an attempt to harm Eurovision?

MA: I get this question asked a lot. One good thing that came out of the two dates clashing was coverage – and the fact that Russian gay people do deserve a voice. We have to remember that post-Soviet Russia is such a new country.

They weren’t allowed McDonald’s there until about 15 years ago. There is a thriving gay scene in Moscow. It’s great fun. Sure, it’s not London or Berlin, but bigger than most UK cities. Russia is an evolving place, very different from UK culture. With that, the gay scene will get larger and more prominent. Parades, some say, are too soon. But I’m sure (and hope) one day they will be a reality.

However, I know of many people in Moscow who couldn’t care less if there was a gay parade or not. With the new money and travel restrictions lifted, many Russians travel the world and see gay life all over. It’s the communities such as some of the older generations, for example, that don’t understand it.  It’s about education and I believe all that will come. There is such a larger divide in Russia than places like the UK – in every aspect.

MF: In the UK, the out-gay TV personality Graham Norton presented Eurovision but made only a very brief reference to the gay-pride incident. In fact, most British viewers probably wouldn’t have known what he was talking about because he didn’t once mention the word gay. What do you think about this?

MA: I spoke to Graham briefly about this. I didn’t mention it with my coverage. I wasn’t told not to either. I added that It wasn’t my position to comment or judge on an event that had nothing to do with Eurovision. Besides, I was panicked enough with all the Eurovision facts and figures to worry about anything else!

I just wanted to talk about the costumes, songs, new voting and to concentrate on the contest. There was also a scandal this year, that a Ukrainian singer represented Russia. The Eurovision rules state any singer from any country can sing for whoever. It was big in the Russian press and I mentioned that a few times and moved on. Eurovision is about all the countries involved, too. Not about Russia the host.

MF: Did you refer to the pride-march incident during your television presentation of Eurovision? If you did, how did you handle this? If you didn’t, why not?

MA: When you’re on TV, you have to know your audience. I was covering Eurovision for all spectrums of ages, cultures, religions, sexes etc.  It’s my job to talk for hours about Eurovision – not to mention a news event that happened to be staged on the same day – regardless of my personal opinion or what the event was. If it was a huge march on animal cruelty, I still wouldn’t have mentioned it.

Regarding Eurovision, it brought thousands of gay people from all over the world to Moscow this year – press, fans, performers, workers, officials etc. Most people said it was a sub-textual gay parade in itself. Surely, the whole of Europe know that!

MF: Do you know how bad the violence meted out to the pride marchers actually was?

MA: Actually, I don’t. Out of the dozens and dozens of gay friends I have in Moscow, Russian and Western, we all stayed away. The violence that did occur … I don’t know … I wasn’t there, so I can’t comment. All I can say is that some people in Russia, including the older Soviet religious communities, simply don’t understand any part of capitalist life, new living, sex before marriage etc. – gay lifestyle is just one of many activities deemed “wrong”.  Imagine a gay-pride march in the 1930’s in the UK. It’s just about education, the nurture of culture and society opening up to new ways of life. I believe it will all come with time.

MF: Was the pride march and the police attack on it subsequently covered in the Russian print media and television? If so, was it covered sympathetically or in a hostile and negative way?

MA: I read an article in one of the English-speaking newspapers. I would say they were quite understanding and lenient towards the parade being a good thing. This was written by Western writers in Moscow though. Sadly, my Russian isn’t good enough to read the Russian newspapers and what opinions they have. I’m sure some were for the parade – while others were against it – for safety reasons if nothing else.

MF: How do you think the typical Russian viewed it?

MA: Is there such thing as a typical person from the UK? No! Rich, poor, kind, nasty – you can’t put almost 150 million people into “one typical Russian” just as you couldn’t in the UK. Sure, there are homophobic people in Russia, there are terrible racists there, too – but we also get that in the UK, and everywhere else around the world. I have never had any trouble or safety issues in Moscow in four years, although I do know women who have suffered sexism.  Not nice. It’s actually a very sexual country and culture is more sexual and open than we are in some ways in the UK! Really!

Straight or gay?

MF: What sort of gay representation/visibility is there in drama and entertainment, generally, in Russia, and especially in television?

MA: In the few awards events, fashion weeks that I have been to it’s full of gay people. Just like the media, fashion etc. would be in Paris or somewhere else. Whether the public or individual is clued up is down to the individual. I remember watching people on TV when I was young. I just saw them for the characters they were. I seriously didn’t know or understand that would have possibly meant a sexual difference to the rest of “society”. Some say they are straight. But didn’t people do that here in the 1970s and ’80s? George Michael, Elton John etc. It’s all about the country growing and learning. People need to give Russia a break and understand where it is, where it’s going and how large the gay scene is in Moscow.

MF: Do you see your role as a visible out-gay celebrity as important to the improvement in treatment of and respect for gay people in Russia?

MA: Russia Today is a channel broadcast in English, so I’m not a Russian celebrity. My travel show Wayfarer is dubbed into Russian and shown on Euronews over there, so every few days or so I get someone [speaking] in Russian coming up to me or wanting a photo. My Russian is good enough to be polite but not good enough to be a Russian-speaking personality.

Regarding my work with RT or any other channels I do, I work in arts and entertainment! It has nothing to do with my sexuality. Whether I am green, yellow, straight or gay, it has nothing to do with my TV work. I’m not saying I’m not out, just that the TV work I’ve been doing doesn’t lend itself to that. If I was doing a chat show in the UK or a reality-TV show, I’m sure it would be a different thing!

I would personally do anything to help the treatment of and gain respect of gay people in Russia and in the UK. As my profile grows internationally, I hope to do that, yes. It is, though, a sensitive subject and you can’t push a society that isn’t ready for it. Yet. That’s my opinion. Just as the dinner ingredients of the average Russian slowly changes so will their behaviour, fashion, smoking in public, holiday destinations and the introduction of different lifestyles.

MF: Does the Russian TV and entertainment world have many gay people working within it, as in Britain?

Yes! Of course! There are, however, lots of people who say they are bi-sexual. It’s the code word for I’m desperate for an English lover! Hehe …  Joke.

MF: Are they out and visible as gay? Do you think more are likely to come out in the near future?

MA: Some are out, yes. It’s a gentle curve. There are people in all workplaces that are in the closet – it’s not just Russia! I have friends in Canary Wharf who still don’t tell their peers. They worry it will affect becoming a partner, for example. Sad, yet a reality if you are in a male straight office! Of course, the percentage of people in the closet in Russia, I’m sure, is higher – but, as I’ve discussed, all that will change, I’m sure.

MF: How homophobic is Russia, generally? The impression we have in the UK is that it’s very difficult for gay people in Russia. Is this true?

MA: There is a huge difference between Moscow and Russia. In my travel show, I visited over 40 destinations covering four continents. In the polar circle, they don’t have straight bars, let alone gay ones! You wouldn’t believe how primitive life is in some regions. It really was like time travel.

But Moscow and St Petersburg have great clubs and bars. All my gay friends who I’ve taken out in Moscow have loved the scene there. There is a Sunday gay night at a popular club called Propaganda. It is incredible and is visited by the hottest and most beautiful people. Now you know! There are thousands of gay expats in Moscow. Most, generally, adore it. I do.

MF: How is homosexuality viewed in Russia generally? Is it seen as a decadent Western capitalist import? Or does it have a home-grown radical/progressive image?

MA: It’s not seen as an import, that’s for sure. Russians are extremely sexual people. The whole Russian-woman image is a whole essay in itself! Strip clubs, prostitution and VIP night life is all the rage in Moscow. As long as people aren’t being hurt, I think it’s fine. Some of the straight clubs are amazing. Soho Rooms, for example. It’s a competition in Moscow to be the best, sexiest, have the most money and to be seen to be the most successful! A rat race till the bitter end. I think it’s funny and don’t take it too seriously.

MF: How helpful is it for foreign gay-rights activists (e.g. from Britain) to come to Russia and take part in demonstrations, as has happened at the most recent Moscow gay-pride events? Is it helpful or not for the gay-rights movement in Russia to be associated with Western campaigners?

MA: I believe it is all about balance. One thing I can say after living in Russia for four years is that you cannot see Moscow banning the parade as Manchester parade being banned because gay people are wrong. It’s so much more than that and complex. People coming over from the UK who know nothing about the history and troubles of Russian history life and culture, hurling themselves in rainbow shirts towards an old Russian orthodox church member may possibly do more damage than good.

It is a very different culture over there [Russia] and people need to understand that it may have money but the traditional ways of life are highly prominent. With that brings good things like family values, patriotism, social order (a night in Moscow feels so much safer than the binge-drinking mess the UK is). Time will tell. It just needs time, a helping hand and smart moves by the gay communities. We have an amazing time, with fabulous clubs and nights out anyway! It’s not like it’s illegal or banned!

MF: I understand that, in some Eastern European countries, the presence of visible gay-rights campaigners from Western European countries has fostered the notion that homosexuality is a “problem” imported from the West. Is this true in Russia?

MA: In four years, I have never heard anyone say that gay life is imported. Clothes, music, food, behaviour, education. Yes. Gay. No.

Mr Fabulous

MF: Has being openly gay helped or hindered your career in general, and, in particular, in Russia? Were you out from the start?

MA: Everyone knows I am gay at Russia Today. Not that I’ve really ever had to say it. Some of the staff nickname me Mr Fabulous, which is nice, and I think the amount of sexy Russian girls who come up and kiss me may even make some of the guys jealous! Hehe.

I’ve never had one bit of problem being gay. I’m professional and I hope good at my job. Whenever I work in the studio, I walk up to the camera men etc., introduce myself and they shake my hand. Breaks the ice. If they hear later, “He’s gay, you know,” it’s much harder for them to be negative towards me if I’ve been so pleasant. This works outside work and in my international career, too.

As for being out with previous jobs, I believe the most important thing is if you can do the job! What you look like, the experience you’ve had, personality etc. Being gay really isn’t an issue.

MF: How easy do you find it in general being an openly gay man in Russia?

MA: You need to come to Moscow. I can honestly say, when walking down the street in Moscow, you will see a gay person, say, every minute. There are, I guestimate, a few hundred thousand gay people living in Moscow. Really – it’s much, much, much gayer than anyone realises. That’s why I worry parades at the moment will do more harm than good. Gay life is getting better here every year – through Russia developing naturally.

MF: Is it easier to be gay (and out) in Moscow than in other Russian cities and elsewhere in Russia?

MA: This is simple to answer. Moscow and St Petersburg’s are like Amsterdam and Madrid. Same league. Every other Russian city is like comparing a Scottish village to London. There are no gay bars and anyone who is different can be misunderstood and judged. But that’s the world over, right?

MF: Although seen as more gay friendly than Moscow’s mayor, Yury Luzhkov, just how gay-friendly are the Russian president Dmitry Medvedev and prime minister Vladimir Putin?

MA: I have never met them and have never read any quotes, so I can't say.

MF: How safe is Russia for gay Western visitors? Is it safe only in Moscow and other big cities? How out and visibly gay is it prudent to be, and what happens if you camp it up or in other ways are too visibly gay?

MA: Moscow is soooooo safe. I jump in and out of stranger’s cars every day to get around the city – imagine that in the UK! It stems from communist times when people didn’t have cars and everyone helped each other out. I feel safer in Moscow than I would in several UK cities!

MF: Martyn, thanks for taking the time to talk to me today, and the best of luck for the future.